Coast tax to return

Bryan Copland • Published 21 Jun 2012 09:30 76 Comments

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New Labour-led council to resurrect long-sunk plans to charge for coastal parking

COASTAL car parking charges at 13 sites are set to be introduced by East Lothian Council - despite its depute leader being against the move.

The cash-strapped local authority's new Labour/Conservative/independent administration is reviving the policy which Labour had first proposed in 2007, believing it could raise nearly £1 million per year towards coastal regeneration.

But the opposition SNP Group - which scrapped the proposal when in power in 2008 - branded it a "tourism tax" and claimed this was "the start of Labour's attempt to fund their uncosted manifesto promises".

And while the Conservative Group has previously supported coastal car parking under the leadership of Councillor Ludovic Broun-Lindsay, its new chief, Councillor Michael Veitch, depute council leader, is opposed to the policy.

The charges would apply to 13 car parks either owned or managed by the council: Longniddry Bents Nos 1, 2 and 3; Aberlady Bay Local Nature Reserve; Gullane Bents; Yellowcraig; Linkfield, Dunbar; Shore Road, Dunbar; Tyninghame Links; Skateraw; Whitesands; Barns Ness; and Thorntonloch.

Councillor Willie Innes (Labour), council leader, said daily charges for cars would be "in the range" of £2, raising "close to one million pounds" per year.

He told the Courier: "It is still in the early stages, but we are asking council officers to come forward with a report on how quickly they can implement the charge.

"Unfortunately we are into the summer period, but we would certainly want the charges in place for next year, if it wasn't possible to get them in this year.

"I think people realise that the council is in a particularly tricky financial situation.

"We are currently spending over half a million pounds through general services in the coastal areas, which we wouldn't have [available] to spend in future if there was no revenue from coastal car parking. I think it would enable us to significantly invest in facilities and improve our coastline in terms of tourism and economic development.

"It wouldn't just be coastal improvements - there's a range of things we could do."

But on claims it would be a "tourism tax", Mr Innes added: "There is a charge at Edinburgh Castle - is that a tax on tourism? Going into a restaurant in North Berwick - is that a tax on tourism?

"Tourists spend money and they don't mind spending money. "When I go to Berwick or any of these places, I go in the full knowledge that I'm likely to pay for the car park."

Councillor Norman Hampshire (Lab) told Dunbar Community Council on Monday that money raised from coastal car parking would be used to "plug the gap" left by the use of council reserves in recent budgets, and "protect education and adult social care".

But Mr Veitch, cabinet spokesman for transport, told the Courier: "The position that I took personally before the election is that I'm opposed to coastal car park charging and that remains my view. That is certainly the view I've expressed in subsequent discussions. In the previous Conservative Group before the election, this was something that was in their budget, so it's really a matter for Ludovic and Tim [Day] to decide their own position."

He added: "I have major concerns about the implications for tourism and I'm also concerned about the views of local people in [my ward of] Dunbar and East Linton.

"The key thing needs to be that we want to see as much evidence as we can of how it would actually work in practice and how much it will raise."

Prior to the 2007 election, Labour had planned to introduce coastal car parking charges.

However, the SNP/Lib Dem administration formed after the election launched a public consultation on the plan.

Of 526 responses to the consultation, 117 indicated they did not wish charges to be introduced.

Others remained 'silent', or indicated that charges should be levied in full to visitors rather than county residents. However, that would be illegal under European law.

Councillors then voted 11-9 in favour of scrapping the policy.

Councillor Paul McLennan, SNP Group leader, said this week: "When in office the SNP refused to introduce these charges after a long campaign by many within the coastal communities who did not support such a tax.

"During the recent election we made clear our opposition to these charges, as did many others standing for election, and we call on them, along with the local communities, to campaign and vote against this misguided tourism tax that will only serve to hit hard-pressed visitors and locals in the pocket."

Councillor Stuart Currie, depute SNP leader, added: "What we are seeing here is just the start of Labour's attempt to fund their uncosted manifesto promises.

"The introduction of these charges will hit tourists coming to our county as well as local residents who just want to walk their dog or take their family for a trip to the beach."

Kilvert Croft, an avid dog walker and Dunbar community councillor, had initially been opposed to coastal parking charges but said this week: "It was in [Labour's] manifesto so they were voted in on this happening, and I recognise that all councils everywhere are short of money.

"If it is used solely for the benefit of maintaining [coastal areas], I think in this climate we have to support it."

But Jeremy Findlay, vice-chair of Gullane Area Community Council, who also stood unsuccessfully as an independent council candidate for the North Berwick Coastal ward in the recent local authority elections, said: "We feel that the charges are unnecessary and would not encourage people to come down and use the facilities of the village."

And Sam Christopherson, who runs Coast to Coast Surf School near Dunbar, added: "It's just crazy - it would force lots of people from East Lothian to surf in the Borders or Fife.

"It will possibly make the council more money, but they will lose visitors, who benefit the coastal communities. Businesses like our own will suffer from it."

Meanwhile, Mr Innes has confirmed the administration's plan to reintroduce free special uplifts for unwanted items in East Lothian.

He is awaiting final figures of the cost implications of such a move but sees "no conflict" between introducing charges through one policy, but removing them in another.

The last administration introduced special uplift charges in July 2009. A report last year showed that it had caused an increase in fly-tipping, but delivered savings of £264,000.

Have your say. Post a comment on this article.

Joe Joe
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Jun 21, 09:54
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£2 for the use of the car park for the day still sounds like a cheap day out to me. Pretty much expect to pay for parking anywhere nowadays and certainly wouldnt put me of taking the kids to the beach for the day.

Recommend? Yes 7 No 25
Robert McNeill
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Jun 21, 10:17
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Joe Joe

I totally agree, the previous administration cut vital funds to our communities, this extra income will mean that money previously directed to our lovely coastal beaches can be redirected to other important services.

I took my wife to the pictures last night cost me £25 for a few hours entertainment and individuals are moaning about £2 car parking fee for the whole day.

Recommend? Yes 4 No 30
Hogwash
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Jun 21, 11:38
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When you take into account the cost of purchasing and installing ticket machines and probaly also the cost of staffing to check on ticket use etc you'll find that the income will fall far short of the predictions. Combine the increase of street parking in Gullane, Dirleton, Dunbar etc and it's a mess waiting to happen.

Recommend? Yes 36 No 5
Robert McNeill
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Jun 21, 12:36
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Hogwash

Which services should the council cut or would you prefer to have your council tax increased.

Recommend? Yes 2 No 15
Local
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Jun 21, 12:45
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yip Tourism is East Lothian main source of income, tourists spend money in local shops which pay taxes and peoples wages.......

So how do we encourage them a Tourist Tax.

Maybe the Council could apply the same to all the Cars Parks at Council buildings.

Recommend? Yes 18 No 3
paul tallman
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Jun 21, 12:53
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£2 per day is cheap, but only to people visiting as a one off.

There will be many people out there who would rather not pay the £2. People who enjoy walking their dogs in places like Longniddry Bents 3 or 4 times a week will probably now end up parking park out on the roads squeezing onto verges. This will create a dangerous situation.

Also, I know of a few people who work as care assistants in East Lothian and visit these coastal areas most days with their clients, especially in the summer. Although the care company may cover the cost in expenses, this expense will be passed onto the clients in one way or another. This will make Care in east Lothian more expensive than it already is.

If East Lothian Council is cash strapped it needs to raise the issue with Fiona O'Donnell, not punish residents and visitors to East Lothian

Recommend? Yes 23 No 1
mike52
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Jun 21, 13:12
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Local

The cost to park your car in Edinburgh is around £20 a day most local Councils charge a fee for parking yes even SNP run council's £2 is not a huge amount to pay but im not surprised that the like's of Curry and Paul Mclennan are trying to score political point's over this and given there mishandling of East Lothien when they were in power has to be laughed at and given that the money will be put back in to improved coastal services i think you will find that as has already been said most folk will not have much objection to the proposal last but not least the reintroduction of Free uplift's will be welcome news to east lothien resident's after the charges that were made under the last administration

Recommend? Yes 2 No 16
Robert McNeill
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Jun 21, 13:22
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why was there little response from those individuals when the previous administration introduced uplift charges, do you think this is fair, you should visit some areas of the county where rubbish was piling up in gardens now the council are bringing in measurers to deal with those individuals whose gardens are an eyesore

for those individuals coming to visit East Lothian I think in many cases their first experience of East Lothian is not a lovely setting sun standing on the beach at Longnidddry but litter , overgrown hedges and in many cases illegal dumping.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 10
paul tallman
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Jun 21, 13:36
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Robert the Socialist,

I wouldnt say that was visitors first experience of East Lothian at all. Our county is hardly as bad as you portray it to be.

Poorly kept gardens or rubbish piling up in gardens has nothing to do with charging for a special uplift. That has more to do with individuals not putting out their wheelie/recycling bins for collection. The council service in this respect is more than adequate.

If the area is as unkemp as you say then this is due to cuts to the council budget which results in cuts to the workforce. This is something Fiona O'Donnel, as East Lothian's MP must address immediately. She should be fighting for more funding for ELC not suggesting schemes to tax residents and visitors.

Recommend? Yes 10 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 21, 13:50
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paul tallman

ok paul it is not really that bad, but come on " coastal car parking charges" I can just imagine my wife suggesting we go for a romantic walk on the beach, No Darling it will cost £2 , can you imagine the response.

surely it is the Scottish Parliament that decides what funding councils should get each year , maybe oor Paul and Stu were putty in Salmonds hands, just like in "OLIVER" can I have more please? MORE MORE be off with you boy

Recommend? Yes 0 No 7
paul tallman
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Jun 21, 14:07
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RtS,

I imagine your wife would just roll her eyes in a 'there he goes again' fashion at your response.

Only joking mate. Like I said though it wont mean much to the people who only park there once in while. Its the regular users who are being punished.

It is the Scottish Governments responsibility to hand funding to councils but the Scottish Block Grant has been cut by the Tories, and is going to be deeply cut again. Best tackle the problem there at the root, and thats Fiona O'Donnells responsibility. Hopefully, if she actually dares ask for "MORE MORE" from her Tory allies, she will get it!

Recommend? Yes 7 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 21, 14:25
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This story has made the front page of the EN , already 45 comments beggars belief

Recommend? Yes 1 No 1
tom crooze
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Jun 21, 14:33
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£2 every time I use the car park. That will cost eez aboot 40 bucks a month! Whys the cooncil taxing us doggers so unfairly?

Recommend? Yes 11 No 0
Hogwash
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Jun 21, 15:04
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Robert - Check your facts - the monies raised through such ventures cannot be used for other council services. This is both a UK and European legislation ruling which has been tested and failed before.

Recommend? Yes 4 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 21, 15:20
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Hogwash

Well thats good news then all monies raised will go directly to coastal renewal the more cars the better facilities we can provide great news for East Lothian great news for tourists

Recommend? Yes 0 No 8
paul tallman
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Jun 21, 15:36
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Robert the Socialist,

Its not really good news for regular users though, they will simply stop visiting.

And what guarantees will there be that this money making 'scheme' wont be extended to include other areas?

I think in a year or so we may see a headline in this paper saying 'Labour plan to extend car park tax to ALL East Lothian car parks'.

And the price will now be double. Or £2 every 3 hours. And a £50 fine if you miss it!

Recommend? Yes 5 No 1
Robert McNeill
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Jun 21, 16:21
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come on paul you have got a vivid imagination

Recommend? Yes 1 No 3
jimmycarrstaxadviser
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Jun 21, 19:08
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Sorry Leader but i think you are tackling this all wrong. Instead of looking for a couple of pounds from how many folks (numbers will be pulled from the sky) why don't you easily raise £1 million by getting rid of the wastes of space patrolling the corridors of power.

Why are we as managers taken to QMU for an event that could be surely held in a council premise, a school for example, engaging in the services of a consultant to run the event when you employ a number of staff to carry out this role.

If it cost £1000 say to hire the university thats 500 visitors to Yellowcraigs that you want to target instead.

If the team who should be carrying out the role instead of the consultant cost £250,000 is that considered a good summer at Gullane.

Tackle the issues that are needed inside East Lothian Council instead of the easier target of council tax payers if we all have to manage our budgets more efficiently job cuts are the only answer, plus theres a few glaring examples of surplus folks.

Oh and if we need to engage the services of a consultant why are we still employing a manager, just a thought.

Recommend? Yes 14 No 0
truthplease
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Jun 21, 20:36
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http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/dunbar/articles/2012/06/14/430560-community-bakery-team-expands-and-eyes-wholesale-opportunities-/

be a place to start.

Recommend? Yes 18 No 2
local
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Jun 21, 20:39
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mike52

cant remember the last time I paid for parking in Edinburgh city centre......

there is lots of free parking around the city centre.

as someone points out many Carers stop at these car parks, so it could stop our most vulnerable getting out

still the old question of COUNCIL staff that get free parking, never mind the number of council staff that have use of council vehicles to commute to/from their home.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 1
Inpector Blakey
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Jun 21, 22:18
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Councillor Stuart Currie,

yip abandoned one ward to join another............

its a pity when he was in the Preston ward that he didn't show more interest in local things rather than his political future....and aspirations

Recommend? Yes 6 No 1
Doug
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Jun 22, 06:31
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The Cooncil roads dept. had better start painting double yellows all through Archerfield, and along the narrow road to Yellowcraig from Dirleton, as well as the entire coastal stretch of the A198. The most consistent effect of prking charges anywhere is to make people park as close as they can get without paying. That requires policing and increased costs.

It may be worth comparing the number of users of Yellowcraig etc with the number who use the Pivately accessed Seacliff beach- where there already is a 2 pound charge. Will that charge double, I wonder, or will their user numbers soar?

Maybe local dog walkers can get together and start a ticket swap scheme?

2 pounds for a whole day is not unreasonable, but for a one hour stroll on the beach , every day, with a dog , it's steep. 730 quid a year to walk the dog?

Recommend? Yes 14 No 0
local
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Jun 22, 08:45
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if they are to start charging for the use of the beach

will the council start cleaning the beaches

bring the toilet facilities upto the same standard as other loos in the county

install shower facilities

bring the car park roads up to standard

simple solution is for car drivers to give other drivers their ticket on the way out...

Tourist Welcome........

Recommend? Yes 6 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 22, 08:46
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Insp Blakey

I was wondering who would introduce Stu's name to this debate, just like in 2007 the Labour Party felt the wrath of the electorate so now has the SNP in 2012. Is anyone really paying much attention to what Stuart Currie says any longer. If you want to know what he is up to just follow him on twitter.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 2
local
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Jun 22, 08:52
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Cllr Innes

you can go to the national museums in Edinburgh and spend a whole day under cover

what do they charge.............Nothing

Tourism is East Lothian Bread and Butter..........

Maybe the money should be spent on improving facilities for tourist

as he's say if you pay for a service you expect a service back...

so clean loos and showers is the first thing you'd expect ?

How many local businesses and locals rely on tourism.

should they start charging for the Museum parking at Prestonpans.....same principal

Musselburgh Town centre..... lets start charging for parking their.......

Recommend? Yes 9 No 1
local
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Jun 22, 08:55
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again Haddington

why are they not charging for the FREE parking around John Muir house

of course that is for Cllrs and Council staff......

Recommend? Yes 8 No 3
Inspector Blakey
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Jun 22, 09:00
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robert macneill

he was quoted in the article

twitter not that sad

even sadder if anyone is following him in twitter

he was never interested in local things in his old ward, school transport and more recently the boat yard....

he was more interested in his political career.....which by moving wards sums him up

Recommend? Yes 3 No 1
Monty Burns
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Jun 22, 09:43
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I can see the point in charging for parking. But... we are all in this together, as the ConDems are fond of saying. So lets see an end to free parking for ELC employees at John Muir House - very few private sector workers enjoy this perk. Then the Councillors could, as a previous poster suggests, order Ms Leitch to stop wasting our money on her management junkets. of course, I don't expect this to happen - its far to easy to continue screwing the council tax payers.

Recommend? Yes 4 No 1
Robert McNeill
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Jun 22, 09:55
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Inspector Blakey

I know how sad, not now he blocked me.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 1
Robert McNeill
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Jun 22, 10:06
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local

are you telling me that the SNP administration done none of these things from 2007-2012

SHAMEFUL

Recommend? Yes 0 No 1
local
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Jun 22, 10:50
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RM

politicians are all the same.....irrespective of the colour of their party flag

Torys .....low taxes.......mmm yet they have increased so many taxes

they've all cut essential public services......

Recommend? Yes 2 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 22, 11:27
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local

Not all politicians, however I would agree when it comes to the actions of certain politicians from all parties then it does not surprise me that many people share you view.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 0
Steve
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Jun 22, 12:16
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Hopefully a car parking charge would reduce the number of locals who treat the beaches as a giant toilet for their dogs.

Recommend? Yes 2 No 3
storminateacup
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Jun 22, 12:56
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Everywhere I go within UK I expect to be charged to park so why is it such a travesty for East Lothian folk and tourists to pay towards upkeep of our coastal facilities. Lucky that we've got away with it for so long although I do remember with fondness the man sitting in the wee hut at Yellowcraigs collecting the charges in the summer so its really not a new phenomenom is it?

All other coastal communities in UK I've visited seem to cope with parking charges so I am sure we can.

Recommend? Yes 2 No 12
local
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Jun 22, 13:43
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RM

very few today

during the last administration I contacted our 4 local Councillors on a number of local issues

2 always responded

1 responded, but didn't support local issues, more interested in his political career

1 has never responded.

We used to have a local councillor, who took interest in all local issues and would help any local and contributed to the community through his own pocket........a rare breed

Recommend? Yes 2 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 22, 13:47
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local

Yes he was well respected by many

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******
Jun 22, 14:00
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ihatepoliticians
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Jun 22, 14:45
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If liebour are cashed strapped I cannae see them abolishing the special uplift charge as promised in their manifesto.

God help the people of east lothian....

As for our "so called" MP ...

Recommend? Yes 7 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 22, 14:58
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ihatepoliticians

Explain yourself.

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mike52
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Jun 22, 15:15
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Ihatepoliticians

The reason we are cash strapped is because the last lot kept dipping into reserve fund's oh i see lot's of Red Thumb's coming my way.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 8
paul tallman
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Jun 22, 15:30
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mike52

Will you be signing the "Keep Beaches Free" petition?

Recommend? Yes 4 No 2
mike52
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Jun 22, 15:46
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Paul tallman

My Daughter takes her dog to Longniddry Bent's and is more then happy to pay a couple of quid to park her car there she wasn't happy along with a lot of East Lothien Resident's have to pay a small fortune to have unwanted refuge picked up which they will no longer have to yes a lot of Red Thumb's from the cyber Nat's who are still more then a little bit miffed at being binned in East Lothien once again let me remind you what they while in office cut's to Ground care cut's to homehelps etc etc i think i will take your comment with a very lage pinch of Salt . Oh you never did say if you were applying for the post as pr guru for the snp in East Lothien

Recommend? Yes 2 No 8
Ihatepoliticians
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Jun 22, 15:59
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Why should I Mr McNeill ....

I don't like the labour party conservative party or even the lib dems and the nats ..

And one thing I will say about my Local labour councillor - he don't give a dam - went to see him about a problem regarding a repair and I'm still waiting to hear from him Fortunately another councillor in the ward was able to help.

one is as bad as the ot her. One thing I do know about Labour - they like to spend money they ain't got and its hard pressed taxpayers like me that pick up the bill ...

And now for the red thumbs

Recommend? Yes 10 No 0
Robert McNeill
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Jun 22, 16:17
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ihatepolticians

well what more can be said

Recommend? Yes 1 No 3
jools
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Jun 22, 17:03
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So the old moan about charging council employees comes back again. - "So lets see an end to free parking for ELC employees at John Muir House - very few private sector workers enjoy this perk." Okay - let's look at the 'private sector' in Haddington - do Tesco employees pay for their parking - No.

Do RBS, Bank of Scotland, Clydesdale and TSB bank employees pay for their parking - No.

Do any of the shops and traders in Market Street or High Street pay for their parking - No.

But because some small minded people who confuse council employees with elected members and think they are tackling 'political views' by suggesting this you do in fact introduce a measure that would have an adverse knock-on affects in Haddington.

The John Muir House car park is used by more than council employees. It is used as a safe route for parents to drop off or pick up their children from neighbouring schools. It is used by visitors to the town and tourists in particular often stop to use the lovely toilets before visiting teh town.

How much would it cost to install ticketing machines and barriers and even if charging was introduced would the level be set high enough for you to approve Monty?

Where would the dispersed vehicles then choose to park? Around High Street, more of Tesco's car park, Lodge Street, Neilson Park Road etc. Will probably need the introduction of more traffic wardens or parking attendants and resulting costs.

Recommend? Yes 8 No 3
Hogwash
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Jun 22, 17:07
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Mike52 - Can you cut and paste your comments first and spellchecker will sort out East Lothian and weird use of commas and plurals. Wee clue check the title of the paper and it's no Lothien!

Recommend? Yes 6 No 1
locaL
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Jun 22, 17:14
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we are talking about East Lothian Council.

Local councils tell people to use Public Transport

Yet are the biggest providors of car parking for their employees.

During the bad weasther in 2010, we never saw a gritter round our area,

side streets and footpaths were iced over.......

what was the Councils priiority.......cleering the the school car park

yet kids were expected to walk along ungritted footpaths......

How much is it going to cost for the public car parks to have ticket machines etc

And why does so many Council Employees get FREE travel to and from their work at the taxpayers expense...

It called double standards

Recommend? Yes 8 No 5
Quizzical
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Jun 22, 17:36
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Well locaL I am a council employee and I don't get FREE travel to and from my work and don't know of any colleague who does. I am an employee and not a politician so your suggestion of double standards does not apply to me as I am not involved in decision making for coastal car parking etc.

The bad weather in 2010 was exceptional and the council's priorities for gritting are clearly stated on website etc which means A roads first and main commuting routes and also access to and from medicval centres, hospitals etc. Side streets in residential areas are well down the list but will be tackled when resources allow. Despite the exceptional weather all bus routes remained open which is something to be praised.

Now the choice also remains - if you want every side street and pavement to be gritted 24/7 would you be willing to see a huge hike in council tax? Believe me the financial situation will get far, far worse and as most council employees also live in Esat Lothian I would like to think we can work together and not be lumped into one negative grump!

Recommend? Yes 8 No 4
Homer
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Jun 22, 18:36
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Well put Jools but don't expect reasoned debate on this blog.

You could also add that if council staff at John Muir House were to be charged for parking then there would be an immediate legal challenge along discrimination lines. One section of employees cannot be favoured or have unfavourable conditions imposed that didn't equally apply to other employees. So similar charges would also apply to other council employees including teachers and librarians. Can you imagine the problems if teachers use neighbouring streets rather than paying for their workplace car parking? Similarly how would you police at libraries which were visitors and which staff or do we charge them all.

On the private sector argument go further afield in East Lothian. Do staff at Torness pay for their workplace parking? Don't believe so and both their and Cockenzie power station car parks are much bigger than John Muir House.

Final and probably most important point on this debate is that if charging was to be introduced for council car park believe me it would not affect the councillors. They would simply be able to add the costs in their monthly expenses.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 2
paul tallman
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Jun 22, 19:06
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mike52,

It wasnt a small fortune to get a special uplift, it was only around £20. Not bad when you compare that to the cost of hiring a van then the hassle factor of taking it to the dump yourself.

As the article above shows, charging for a special uplift saved over quarter of a million pounds!

The current situation is fine, it does not need changed. Many more people use the beach than request special uplifts, so car park charging will have a greater impact on East Lothian residents, and will now also affect visitors and tourists.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 0
local
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Jun 22, 19:47
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Quizzical

by Council staff....by this I mean Cllrs and all the workers

the debate is about ELC...thankfully still Public Sector

all bus routes kept open are you sure?

also 2010......but even on normal winter days

sorry I commute to work and and can say 1st hand that the Council's priorities on road and pavement gritting is not consistent, even in the mild winter of 11/12

I've seen back streets and footpaths done in some towns (depending on your Councillor)

yet bus routes in some areas aren't done....and footpaths are the same

I never said all Council employees............but there is a number of Council vehicles in our area.....

why do school staff need car parks provided........

why should one town get more of streets and footpaths done than others.

Recommend? Yes 3 No 1
JacquieB
13 posts
Jun 22, 20:25
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A major reason for the Labour defeat in the 2007 ELC election was the plan to introduce coastal car parking charges. I had a petition as part of my election campaign and there was a major on line petition too. It was a reason why I was elected in 2007 and I have been consistently opposed to any coastal car park charging. Had I been elected in 2012 I would be opposing them.

There were subsequent consultations with the public by the Lib Dem/SNP Administration which demonstrated clear opposition.

Financial modelling by ELC staff indicated that once the costs of charge collection (e.g. employing staff) and losses from people not visiting were taken into account income was not great. It would be well short of the figures proposed by the new Administration. There is no way that income generated wil be £1 million a year. This was noted in the 2012 budget discussions.

EU law does not allow discretionary free parking for local residents. Thus those who use the parking most regularly because they live here will pay out more than the one off visitor.

It was thought better to directly put coastal improvements e.g. the new toilets at John Muir Country Park into the ELC budget.

There were also concerns about the displacement of parking into nearby not charged areas e.g. from Shore Road into Belhaven which is already under pressure.

I hope Michael Veitch will stick to his guns and oppose any proposals

Recommend? Yes 8 No 0
Dunbar Resident
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Jun 22, 21:35
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I would rather pay the charge and see visitors to the region pay the charge than loose staff and vital services in the Council / County.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 2
locaL
Unregistered User
Jun 22, 21:47
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dunbar resident.

we are taking about tourists/visitors and locals..........so what happens "if" )and thats a big if) the charge results in people heading elsewhere so insted of spending their money in East Lothian and they head for ...Portobello beach........beach cleaned daily along with local ameneties......and spend their cash in shops their instead of East Lothian shops...

Recommend? Yes 6 No 0
JacquieB
13 posts
Jun 23, 08:17
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My contacts with visitors at Shore Road and John Muir Country Park over the years about parking charges evidenced that they would choose to go to a place that was free. There is an issue about a flat rate - £2 for a few minutes look at the Bridge to nowwhere or all day. Last time the LD/SNP Administration looked at it there was a scale of charge based on length of stay and with a locals season ticket.. The charge was at peak periods of the day to allow locals time to walk there dogs with the times being different in summer and winter. The public didnt want it and there was clear evidence that the income generated would not be enough to make any investments to coastal amenities like toilets.

Charging will affect activities like surfing at John Muir Country Park and thus small businesses like the surfing school.

Charging will not bring in £1milliion income.

I remain opposed and had I been on the Council stil I would be voting against it.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 0
local
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Jun 23, 09:40
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yip tourism is East Lothians bread and butter

Cllr Innes talks about a restaurants in North Berwick, this employs locals and many are supplied by local suppliers.

If they charge too much.....well people vote with the feet.

So we charge the "hands" that feed our local businesses, but Cllr Innes and Co still benefit from free parking.

The Council moans about the high bus fares and poor service operated by FIRST, yet at the same time is the biggest provider of employee parking in East Lothian. You cant have you cake and eat it.!

Recommend? Yes 8 No 0
Ormiston resident
Unregistered User
Jun 23, 14:11
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Councillor Innes says he wants to get charges implemented this year for the summer if not then for next year for sure, £2 seems ok to me but listen to the people on this blog, £2 seems ok too for the free John Muir car park in Haddington, you were elected by the people now listen to the people Councillor Innes, a free car park is not on!!!

Recommend? Yes 5 No 0
MeTo
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Jun 23, 15:32
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It's a pity ex councillor Bell wasn't so opposed to some of the other money wasting fiascos when she was part of the SNP/ Lib coalition. Examples - zebra crossings in Dunbar High Street, school whose roof blows off, failure to deal with dog fouling. At least Labour had this as part of their manifesto and are sticking to it. Of course, sticking to manifesto promises is not something one usually associates with the LibDems.

Recommend? Yes 4 No 6
local
Unregistered User
Jun 23, 16:08
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meto

what has a roof got to do with Councillors......crossing are the same, Councillor's rely on Council Officials (many appointed under the previous labour administration)....to get things done right.

All parties are the same...remember Labours No More Boom or Bust... now look at the state of the Country.....!!!

Recommend? Yes 5 No 1
MeTo
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Jun 23, 16:32
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Local: to use your own argument - what has anything got to do with Councillors if they simply rely on officials to get things right? The fact is the administration sets strategy and then the officials put that strategy into practice. The Councillors can't then sit back and say "not me gov" when the officials get it wrong. Labour included car park charging on their manifesto and were voted in on that manifesto. If Ms Bell is suggesting it should not go ahead because "the public don't want it" then we may as well not have local democracy because there will be many things the public don't want - particularly if they have to pay for it.

Recommend? Yes 2 No 5
Dunbar Man
Unregistered User
Jun 23, 16:51
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MEto

Coastal Car Parking Charges wasn`t in the Labour Manifesto- wonder why?????

This policy is counter productive and will split the Coalition

Recommend? Yes 3 No 0
JacquieB
13 posts
Jun 23, 17:19
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Me To

I was surprised to find that the zebra crossings were where they are - I didn's see a plan before they appeared.

The school is a multi million new facility for the town - it was a freak gale and the school wasnt the only structure damaged in East Lothian and elsewhere.

As for dog fouling the number of dog wardens has been increased, The Police also patrol. Tickets have been issued to offenders. The subject has been a regular topic at the Community and Police Partnership meetings which I chair. There is a dog watch scheme in operation.The Police think the problem - although its still there, has improved.

I never saw a Labour leaflet during the election but the charges were in both the Labour and Conservative/Independent(John Caldwell) budgets in February.

Recommend? Yes 2 No 0
MeTo
Unregistered User
Jun 23, 17:25
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I'm afraid my shoes would not share the police opinion that the situation has improved. This is really a situation where the council, police and dog wardens are simply not doing their duty. A few people taked to court and prosecuted and then named and shamed would work wonders.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 3
jimmycarrstaxadviser
Unregistered User
Jun 23, 17:33
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The important piece in the article is the fact that East Lothian Council is cash strapped, and yes no different from many other Local Authorities.

But the real issue the administration should be tackling is the waste in John Muir House.

Why can't the administration instruct the Chief Executive to implement a recruitment freeze, ban on overtime, removal of agency workers etc. The previous administration were quite happy to allow Ms Leitch to bin the Heads of Service she didn't want to work with, why can't the new administration start with redundacies across the board.

One Head has 14 managers below, thats not manageable and duplication across posts, never mind the struggle to find a room big enough to have a team meeting.....never mind can always hire QMU.

Be brave Leader you know its necessary....bye bye Directors and half the managers on the above heads team and you can save the money you want to generate from taxing the locals, don't turn into the Sheriff of Nottingham Leader.

PS Why if the rumours correct are we employing a new Head of Education when the Chief Executive didn't need to fill it when she wanted to bin folks..........

Recommend? Yes 4 No 2
local
Unregistered User
Jun 24, 08:55
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meto

local democracy.......mmmmm...now is that when a party that comes 3rd with 3 seats gets into power..........yes councillors set policy....but who makes up the policy?

maybe we should charge for everything in East Lothian on a pay as you use basis.

why should someone pay for services that they never use?

Recommend? Yes 0 No 1
local
Unregistered User
Jun 24, 09:00
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jimmycarrstaxadviser

ELC cash strapped.............never believe that myth.........when you look at the way councils in the past have spent money on non essentials........

and as you point out the waste at The Council HQ

Recommend? Yes 1 No 1
local
Unregistered User
Jun 24, 09:03
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MeTo

for once dont blame the Councils & Police about dog mess

Its the owners that are the problem.

Someone once said, I cant take my dog anywhere now due to the dog fouling rules.....

the reply was you can, YOU just have to clear up after YOUR dog....!!!!

Recommend? Yes 6 No 0
MeTo
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Jun 24, 13:02
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Local: Yes, dog mess is the fault of the owners in the same way that crime is the fault of criminals. But we expect the police to deal with criminals - we should also expect them to deal with people ( criminals) who let their dogs foul our streets. There's far to much acceptance of this and other low-level crimes such as littering and vandalism.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 1
local
Unregistered User
Jun 24, 18:17
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police deal with the criminals......but they are not punished...often getting a "Pat" on the back and get told not to do it again.

I've challenged dog owners in the past......you get a lot of abuse....funny how they think its alright to let their dogs mess in parks and others areas , but not their own.

Recommend? Yes 3 No 0
Robert McNeill
Unregistered User
Jun 25, 12:33
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Getting back to the real issue, clearly opinions are split on this and even the debate has reached the Evening News.

It is to the benefit of the whole community of East Lothian for our beaches to be the best, however to achieve this we need to be realistic ELC cannot depend on council funding when other issues like care in the community are becoming more expensive and it does not look like the Scottish Government or NHS are going to provide more cash.

As local communities we need to work together and be able to come up with even more innovative ways and solutions to ensure we provide good local amenities.

£2 to visit the beach in my view is a small price to pay for these improvements.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 5
Monty Burns
Unregistered User
Jun 26, 12:09
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Robert: I take it as long as it doesn't involve the Council trying to save money using shared services? Presumably that would be too innovative for an old Socialist like yourself!

Recommend? Yes 2 No 0
Robert McNeill
Unregistered User
Jun 26, 12:52
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Monty Burns

The shared service concept which I am very familiar with, does not necessarily deliver savings, in fact something which local authorities are continually accused of – not responding to enquiries- actually it has been proved becomes more frustrating when you centralise services. As for being innovative there are many other ways to become efficient.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 2
Monty Burns
Unregistered User
Jun 26, 14:13
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Proved by whom Robert?

Recommend? Yes 0 No 0
Robert McNeill
Unregistered User
Jun 26, 14:59
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Monty Burns

I can only go on my own experiences having worked in a shared service environment for 7 years.But I would welcome your own expereinces of shared services then I am sure we can have a constructive debate.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 0
Colin Yorkston
Unregistered User
Jun 27, 12:35
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Dog owners are complaining that they will not be able to take their pets a walk in the car anymore due to the £2 charge! They can afford the petrol though. How about rationing the number of times that they drive down to the beach - they will save money on petrol that can then be used for the parking charge on the times that they do go to the beach. Or they could spend the savings on plastic bags to pick up the mess that they little mutts are making throughout all of our towns!

Apparently the £2 charge will result in tourists deciding not to travel to East Lothian. For overseas visitors this will equate to a tiny fraction of 1% on the cost of their holiday. I don't think that they will be prevented from coming for such a small effect.

Others from closer by, e.g. Edinburgh will be spending just as much on petrol to actually get here. But apparently the proposed £2 will stop them coming. Are these people likely to stop of and spend all of their money in our local shops or are they more likely to jump back in their cars and go home? I am not too sure how many businesses and shops are actually located directly next to the car parks - not many I would guess.

Others coming from further afield will be spending more on petrol, which clearly hasn't stopped them coming - but the £2 charge will!

I read that a surfing business was concerned about the effect on them. Would it not be possible to have a system in place similar to that at Fountainbridge in Edinburgh. I have parked there when going to the cinema and can claim back/be exempt from the parking charge because I have used one of the buinesses within the complex.

The only people that I can see that would be affected are local dog-owners who drive their dogs down there - they seem reluctant to pay for the upkeep of the coastal area - that they clearly use on a regular basis - and expect the rest of us to pay for it. It may result in them visiting less often and therefore using their car less and so spewing less pollution into the environment. Every cloud has a silver lining.

Recommend? Yes 3 No 5
Unimpressed
Unregistered User
Jun 27, 14:20
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Hope the ££££'s that ELC hope to raise by introducing Coastal Parking Charges wont be wasted on idiotic schemes like this,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18598092

...and Local Authorities wonder why they face constant criticism from the public that they "serve" ?

Recommend? Yes 1 No 0
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jun 28, 18:33
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£2 isn't the issue. It's the principal of the charge which is the problem .....

It's really simple folks .... the relationship between charging, parking and enforcement is set, and always will be. Much like any tax, as soon as you set one, people will attempt to avoid it unless there is rigorous enforcement (which of course costs money), and there comes a point where enforcement costs are more than revenue income.....

If people have a choice to avoid the charge they will......They WILL park elsewhere locally causing severe congestion. It's a simple truth of human nature.

Charging WILL ALWAYS reduce attendance at beach carparks and will dissuade some from visiting entirely..... The greater the charge, the greater the motivation to avoid it.

Of course merely setting up a charging structure and administering it costs money .....

This will reduce the predicted revenue, and will only be partially mitigated by enforcing new parking regulations in the areas around the beach carparks .... which will cost even more money to set up and enforce ........

I'm not surprised that Labour are proposing this policy. They have previous form for ripping up manifestos and ignoring public will. Also Labour are masters of ill thought out policy which invariably invokes the rule of unintended consequences.

Beach parking charges will be at best revenue neutral, but will REDUCE visitor numbers, and INCREASE traffic congestion in the localities involved.

Beach parking charges are bad for business and the community.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 0

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