Show of support for blanket 20mph zone in burgh
Mairi Gordon • Published 23 Jul 2012 09:30
47 Comments
Share this
A campaign to make Cockenzie and Port Seton 20 mile per hour zones is gathering momentum with around 200 people already signing up in support of the plan.
The campaign is being spearheaded by branch coordinator Isobel Robertson who explained she and other groups from North Berwick and Dunbar will meet with council representatives next month to discuss moving the plans forward for '20's plenty' zones in East Lothian.
Read the full story in this week's Courier, out on Thursday.
Have your say. Post a comment on this article.
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 23, 17:53
Report commentOh dear, ... the neofacist politically correct/health and safety/autocrats have escaped the asylum it appears ......
Perhaps if the Road Traffic Act was enforced rigourously by actual police officers on a regular basis, rather than signposts, speedbumps and brightly decorated roads that do little but add to the confusion and congestion, then these control freaks wouldn't be given the media attention they so desperately crave........
The simple truth is nearly all accidents are caused by people IGNORING existing laws ...... if we can't enforce those properly then why, oh why are we seeking to introduce further restrictions that will also be ignored?
Proper and thorough enforcement of illegal parking ( at junctions and schools for example ), non insured drivers, illegal and poorly maintained cars, use of phones whilst driving, improper use of foglights in clear conditions, careless driving including cutting across the central line without indication ...... the list is exhaustive and doesn't even touch on inappropriate speed for conditions and visibilty, which is an offence under careless driving itself.
Set the speed limit at whatever you like ..... it'll make little difference, because as any road traffic officer or IAM instructor will tell you, speed in itself is never the cause of an accident....it is merely an aggravating factor in the damage done, or a factor in regard to the environmental conditions.
Better IMO to remove the causes of accidents (see my list above) at source, rather than tinker with an aggravating factor wich will be ignored by those who already choose to drive at excessive speeds for the conditions and environment.
........Still, I'm sure all those new signposts will look pretty and not cost too much ......... maybe even less than a couple of police officers dedicated to road traffic offences.........
Recommend?
Yes 18
No 8
-
PortSetonResident
Unregistered User
Jul 23, 18:54
Report commentSo, about 3% of the town's population support it - do the other 97% not matter then? A classic case of the vocal "what-about-the-children" minority getting their own way over everyone else. The ludicrous speed bumps on Alder Road and Fisher Road were bad enough, and now this? I could support this around the school and community centre, but not on the four main roads around the town.
Recommend? Yes 13
No 10
-
MeTo
Unregistered User
Jul 23, 19:51
Report commentThis is being promoted in Dunbar by members of our local pseudo environmental group. It has very little to do with speeding or road safety. Rather, it is part of their continued attempt, using tax payer money, to foist their life-style on an unwilling population. Totally agree with Mogatrons.
Recommend? Yes 12
No 6
-
Lost The Plot
Unregistered User
Jul 23, 19:58
Report commentmmm 20's plenty
is this the same lot that are Erecting Illegal Signs around the village.
If this was local youths they would call it vandalism.
The group have stuck 20's plenty sign up on a number of Post Boxes and other street side boxes
At first glance they look like Proper road signs.......but they are in fact ILLEGAL
Maybe the Police should be having a quiet word with Ms Robertson?
Recommend? Yes 13
No 6
-
Lost The Plot
Unregistered User
Jul 23, 20:06
Report commentPortSetonResident
what 4 main roads around the village?
Fishers road is a residential street
Alder Road......this was planned a NON residential road......the 3 houses at the east end of the Alder Road were originally planned as a Retail area.
The Local Community Council tells us that the speed humps, lines and still to come Central Traffic Islands are there as its diffucult for people to cross the Alder Road to get to the bus stops... yet there is No main footpath along the south side of the Alder Road.
Yet the main coast road were the majority of people cross has little safe places to Cross.
from the Crossing down to the Traffic Island at the Longcraigs road there is not one central traffic island.....yet cars regularly travel down their at SPEED.
Recommend? Yes 6
No 3
-
Lost The Plot
Unregistered User
Jul 23, 20:11
Report commentit does make you laugh that Locals are complaining about the speed.....
Yet its the Locals that are speeding.
What makes laugh is the "folk" in the new estate are complaining about the speed along Alder Road
But turn into the residential area and you find CARs parked on the FOOTPATHS often on the corners near the Alder Road
Recommend? Yes 12
No 3
-
paul tallman
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 09:53
Report commentLost the plot,
At last an explanation!
I noticed those signs and thought it was strange the way they were displayed.
Some are stuck in odd places, like barely 2 foot off the ground or on the front of service boxes.
Recommend? Yes 9
No 4
-
lost the plot
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 11:04
Report commentI always laugh at these lower speed limit campaigns
Yet the same folk throw their kids in a car and drive at speed along Local Roads to take their kids to school.
And why do they drive their kids to school, because of all the fast cars, yet they never see themselves as part of the problem..!!
Alder Road - must be the safest NON residential street in east lothian?
Road are safe, until you let people drive on them.!!!!
Recommend? Yes 14
No 5
-
East of East Lothian
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 12:03
Report comment -
Icare
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 12:31
Report commentI am saddened by some of the comments and would ask that people research the 20's Plenty for Us campaign thoroughly before giving their opinions. Please visit www.20splentyforus.org and study the facts, the benefits and the common sense of Total 20.
Re Signage/Crossings - Total 20 takes away the need for countless signs and crossings .. it needs mainly the compliance/decency/common sense of drivers.
Re Alder Road - the cushions were put in because of speeding drivers - there had been several accidents and many more near accidents. People still speed and - astonishingly -drive in the middle of the road causing distress/danger to other drivers. Residents in the area have to cross the road when getting on or off a bus and some exercise their dogs on the grass verge (often leaving the mess or the bag - another story!).
Please, please show consideration for each other.
Note: The 20's Plenty Campaign did not put up any posters on the streets.
Recommend? Yes 6
No 27
-
Anna
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 13:02
Report comment20mph limits are recognised as Department for Transport and EU best practice for residential roads or where there are likely to be vulnerable road users. The Health Service's research partner NICE also says 20mph is best practice for child protection. An average 20-22% fewer casualties are reported after community wide 20mph limit implementation with signage (ie without traffic calming like humps). Slower speeds provide the basis for active travel, lowering obesity, heart disease and stress. They save 12% of fuel, reducing pollution and climate change emissions. Limits smooth traffic and cut congestion. Noise is 40% less and road maintenance and signage lighting costs fall. Improved accessibility, helping the vulnerable and community cohesion are further quality of life gains.
The police can enforce limits with light touch policing and Fixed Penalty Notices
Recommend? Yes 5
No 25
-
lost the plot
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 13:26
Report commentIcare
how many residents cross the alder road compared to the main road through the village?
there is no footpath on the south side of the alder road (except at either end)
yet there is not one speed bump on the main road were the majority of peope have to cross the road...try coming of a bus on the busy main road.
How many accidents involving pedestrians has there been on the main road through the village
People never drove in the centre of the road until the speed bumps were installed?
and many of the speeding drivers live in the new estate.
walk round the new estate and drivers are often driving at an in appropriate speed also the number of cars that are parked on the footpaths.....double standards
Note: The 20's Plenty Campaign did not put up any posters on the streets. ....
I right, so someone went out and purchased these themselves.......
theres a maximium 30mph on the main road....yet this is never enforced, if you you do drive to the highway code, drivers overtake at speed.
Car drivers see everyone else as the problem, never themselves
and how do people sign up for the 20's plenty or for the status quo
Recommend? Yes 15
No 3
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 13:35
Report commentAnna, the problem with using spurious claims from vested interest think-tanks is that invariably you cite them outwith context.
You claim 20mph saves 12% fuel .... nice claim, but where is the evidence? Particularly given that 56mph is the industry wide accepted most fuel efficent speed.
Also, how on earth does lowering the speed limit reduce pollution given the above ....if anything it increases pollution as engines run less efficiently?!?
Lower speed limits INCREASE congestion, because vehicles take longer to travel a given distance, resulting in more vehicles on a road at any given time.
Your claim that lower speeds will invariably lower heart disease and obesity is baseless. What puts people off using bikes or walking more often is laziness and practicality ... not the 30mph speed limit for traffic currently in force.
....besides none of your claims address the point in my original post, that is we already have sufficient legislation in place....what we lack is sufficient enforcement!
The general populace are more intelligent than you give them credit for ... patronising them with pseuodoscience merely confirms their suspicions.........
Recommend? Yes 23
No 3
-
lost the plot
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 14:39
Report commentAnna
mogatron is right in many parts
"lower speeds will invariably lower heart disease and obesity", mdedical people will tell you that people walking short distances instead of driving and throwing their kids into cars to drive them to school would increase peoples health and reduce pollution.
We already have a max 30mph speed limit through the village that is never enforced... stand along the prom or along south seton park to see the antics of drivers.
There have been more pedestrian accidents or near misses on south seton park than the alder road.
How many locals can honestly say that they drive to the highway code?
People walking to school protects kids from dangerous parents drving like people possessed.
Recommend? Yes 10
No 1
-
Is 5 Fine
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 15:27
Report commentWell said mogatrons. Cockenzie and Port Seton seems to have more than its fair share of well meaning folk who just love a good bandwagon, as long as it isn't travelling too fast.
Anna, I'd like to know how you figure getting people to drive at 20 instead of 30 will reduce pollution? Surely it will do the opposite.
Icare, in your post you recognise that the compliance/decency/common sense of drivers is the main factor in improing road safety. Please explain why a boy racer will pay more attention to your 20 sign than the current 30 sign.
Recommend? Yes 13
No 1
-
Not another petition
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 15:42
Report commentInstead of pestering us to agree with what you think, why not give us a options to choose from for a change?
Only 200 people out of the whole village is a tiny percentage.
Recommend? Yes 7
No 1
-
lost the plot
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 15:56
Report commentBoy Racers......at least you can hear them coming
but just watch the age of drivers in cars that are ignoring the speed limity within cockenzie and port seton..... and the majority are not boys racers.
In fact with may boy racers cars having lowered suspension, they will acutually be the ones driving slower comapared to the adults on phones with kids in the back of the car...
Recommend? Yes 6
No 1
-
Creeler
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 16:19
Report comment -
Not another petition
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 16:26
Report comment -
MeTo
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 16:29
Report commentThe majority of Community Councillors are not elected. Unfortunately, this leaves them wide open to infiltration by special interest groups. They really should not claim to be representing the community's views - who even knows who their Community Councillors are?
Recommend? Yes 5
No 1
-
Dunbardriver
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 16:41
Report commentMeTo is right about the eco-nuts driving this. This is from Sustaining Dunbar "Sustaining Dunbar has helped to found the 20s Plenty for Dunbar Campaign as slower traffic speeds make the roads safer for everyone and will encourage more people to use sociable and environmentally friendly forms of transport such as walking and cycling." None of this backed up by hard information of course.
Recommend? Yes 7
No 1
-
Pedestrian
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 19:09
Report comment -
Wendy
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 19:54
Report comment -
Dunbardriver
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 17:51
Report commentI presume "Anna" is Anna Semlyen, the national campaign manager for this group. If so, perhaps Anna could let us know if she is a volunteer or does she enjoy a salary for her efforts. Could this be the same Anna who was investigated in 2011 by York City Council for using public money to stage an eco-home event while earning £200 for referring clients to a supplier of solar panels?
Recommend? Yes 6
No 0
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 18:52
Report commentDunbardriver, is this the story you're referring to : http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9077565.New_councillor_facing_inquiry/
Because if it is the one and same person, she's put up this biopic on New Society Publishers site;
'Anna Semlyen is car-free by choice. She rides a folding bicycle with basket or trailer, carpools, takes taxis and sometimes rents a car. A Traffic Reduction consultant in the UK, she has written for several magazines on the topic.'
and writes in the prelude to one of her books:
'Picture how different your neighborhood would be with fewer moving cars.........people who want to reduce their car dependency by giving up their car.
..... so, safe to say a vested interest party who's true agenda is to deny us all use of our cars, and is set about achieving her aims by infiltrating our local council..... and all without a single vote, or hint of democracy!
...'nuff said really.
Recommend? Yes 9
No 0
-
Dunbardriver
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 19:15
Report commentIndeed. Now we can see what their true agenda is - probably funded by taxpayer money as well.
Recommend? Yes 5
No 0
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 19:21
Report commentIn the comments section of that York Press story there's a VERY ENLIGHTENING post about Anna from someone who claims to know her well ......
"We all know what Ms S is like. She doesn't let it lie. She persists. People were surprised when she went up as a Labour councillor not a Green until they realised she knew she wouldn't get in as a Green so she went red to get her own way. I don't think that can be denied and if you know her personally then you know what I'm saying.
20's Plenty failed so she had to up the game. The blanket speed restriction will happen one day she will see to it and becoming a councillor of whatever colour is necessary is just a step on the road to that.
York doesn't need single issue politicians with a personal agenda, no-one does.”
...... if it walks like a duck etc etc ......
Recommend? Yes 6
No 0
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 19:40
Report commentOh dear, from the 20's Plenty Dunbar site:
"We are campaigning for all the roads in Dunbar to have 20mph speed limits by default."
...... *shakes head in disbelief*....
Recommend? Yes 7
No 0
-
Dunbardriver
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 19:56
Report commentAnd the person leading the campaign in Dunbar is employed as a sustainable transport adviser and was instrumental in setting up a car sharing scheme. Anyone still think this is about safety?
Recommend? Yes 7
No 0
-
Lost The Plot
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 21:01
Report commentso this Anna doesn't even live in the area........
Recommend? Yes 6
No 0
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 21:05
Report commentNo.
She's on a crusade to unilaterally enforce 20mph limits throughout the entire country.....
...... so that we all ride bikes instead.
Recommend? Yes 5
No 0
-
Dunbardriver
Unregistered User
Jul 25, 21:19
Report commentInteresting that Ms Robertson was also leading the campaign against a new gas-fired power plant at Cockenzie. Another Green trying to force her agenda on the rest of us?
Recommend? Yes 5
No 0
-
Robert McNeill
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 08:52
Report commentIf we are to seriously look at traffic management then we have to look at something more suitable than "speed bumps" there are very good examples of well managed traffic calming in residential areas in Edinburgh.
However one of the main problems that we face to day is the volume of cars on the road which in turn creates major traffic congestion in residential areas due to on street parking.
For me this is not about “green issues” it is about creating a safe environment for both drivers and pedestrians.
Recommend? Yes 0
No 0
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 11:19
Report commentIf people are serious about reducing car use then it's no good legislating against common sense ... the issue is much greater than simply introducing YET MORE LEGISLATION, OR ERECTING MORE STREET CLUTTER SIGNAGE for goodness sake!
We use our cars because you politicians enable out of town shopping developments.
We use our cars because you journalists sell fear in your newspapers.
We use our cars because successive governments have destroyed our railways.
We use our cars because successive governments have destroyed local economies.
We use our cars because successive governments have broken the housing system.
In short WE use OUR cars because YOU the politician, journalist and businessman who all control so much of our society, GIVE US NO VIABLE ALTERNATIVE ...... and then you blame all the ills on us, and seek to punish us, because YOU won't change YOUR ways or accept RESPONSIBILITY for the problems YOU create......all the while pocketing your profit at our expense.
.............
HYPOCRITS one and all!!!
Recommend? Yes 3
No 0
-
Robert McNeill
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 12:50
Report commentmogatrons
got wee bit sun stroke today, my god I thought I could rant but you certainly win 1st prize today, time for the tablets pal
Recommend? Yes 1
No 1
-
Another p.seton res
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 13:50
Report commentI think the speedbumps on Alder and Fishers road are awful,
As said above, nobody used to drive in the middle of the road before they were there.
And why do people drive in the middle, because they're stupidly high.
I have a normal car, and even that scrapes, going over them, and i'm not one of the "lowered suspension" crew.
Still, if it slows down those idiotic young drivers in their Honda Civics, who seem to find it ammusing to drive and make their cars backfire all the time, then it's maybe worth it.
Recommend? Yes 5
No 0
-
mogatrons
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 14:49
Report comment"mogatrons
got wee bit sun stroke today, my god I thought I could rant but you certainly win 1st prize today, time for the tablets pal "
....mmm maybe you're right on this one Robert ... lol!
It just really peeves me when the first option to any 'issue' is to legislate, and it's usually put forward by those in some way culpable for the current state of affairs.
We have perfectly adequate legislation already, and all sane and reasonable drivers wouldn't dream of driving to excessive speeds if the conditons and surrounding don't merit it, so why the need for yet more laws that will be ignored by those who choose to ignore existing laws?
What we need is effective enforcement of current legislation.
What we don't need is further curtailing of what limted civil liberties and freedoms we still have, especially by an unelected pressure group who have a stated aim of removing car use from us entirely, ... but cloak it in an agenda of environmentalism and safety.
Afterall, we are where we are (with car use) due to successive policies, media manipulaton and commercial practices outwith our individual control ... in short those vested interest have made us car dependendant, yet now we are to be forced to give up our cars without practical alternatives available.
How does my partner, forced to work in Edinburgh due to lack of local employment, commute when public transport is more costly and less reliable than buying and running a car with one occupant?
How does a shift worker, forced to live in East Lothian due to Edinburgh house prices, get to work in the city outwith public transport times?
These lifestyle 'choices' have infact been in part forced on a populace by fiscal and planning policy, and the vagries of the capitalist system we are subject to.
.... and now a self serving eco-idealist has infiltrated local politics with her singular agenda that ensures ongoing employment for her, at our expense, an attempts to railroad us into adopting her vision of an ideal, without so much as a consultation...
....sounds kinda like a religious cult when you examine the reality.
Recommend? Yes 2
No 1
-
FAIRTRADE
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 18:57
Report commentmogatrons
at the end of the day we have all been part of the problem.
Yes badly managed by Politicians
Think Global........never worked that one out
but we all want things cheap.....
we buy goods from halfway round the world, which resulted in British Industry going down the pan.
Buying a car cheaper than travelling by Bus or Train.......bit of a myth
yes the cost cost of public transport varys depending on where you live.
As this article is about C&PS, public transport is cheaper in real terms since before deregulation Started here in May 1986...
We now have a 24/7 bus service with modern buses........
Recommend? Yes 2
No 1
-
FAIRTRADE
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 19:01
Report commentas you indicate we have all been part of the "media manipulation"
with a must have life style..
Cockenzie and Port Seton used to have most types of goods within the village
people shopped local because everything was available locally
The local store used to deliver to local homes 30+ years ago
But we have all been part of consumerism !!!
Recommend? Yes 2
No 1
-
lost the plot
Unregistered User
Jul 26, 21:09
Report commentthe majority of car drivers who speed aren't the boy racers.
Recommend? Yes 1
No 0
-
Robert McNeill
Unregistered User
Jul 27, 08:16
Report commentmogatrons
I agree totally with your last comments
Recommend? Yes 1
No 0
-
P Seton driver
Unregistered User
Jul 27, 15:52
Report commentThink the writer of this slightly pathetic article has got it so wrong! 'show of support...' really?? Are you sure?? Don't fancy changing that after reading all the villagers comments?? 'NO SUPPORT FOR 20MPH BLANKET ZONE IN THE BURGH' would suit better I think...Gosh..its easy being a writer!
Recommend? Yes 2
No 0
-
Dunbardriver
Unregistered User
Jul 27, 16:36
Report commentSo Anna has went silent. No doubt she will now be busy advising the eco-nuts how to take the battle to the Councillors. They tend to be easily manipulated, unlike the general population.
Recommend? Yes 2
No 0
-
local
Unregistered User
Jul 27, 18:11
Report commenthow does someone sign up to the petition
is anyone aware of door to door petition?
Recommend? Yes 0
No 0
-
lost the plot
Unregistered User
Jul 28, 13:26
Report commentalder road isn't even a residential street
yet we have seen speed bumps, solid lines painted and soon central traffic islands..
The authorities fail to enforce the current speed limit within the village, so how will a 20mph limit be enforced.
It drivers that ignore the Highway Code that are the problem...
Recommend? Yes 5
No 0
-
Prester John
Unregistered User
Aug 9, 19:29
Report commentIt's no good complaining. Ye were a' weel warned almost three years ago when the then local Head of Geography at PL started writing letters about the coming changes i.e. Alder Road being changed down to 30 mph because the local community councillor was worried about her cat's safety. This was despite all the police readings (85th percentile readings and median speed readings) matching the government criteria for a 40 mph limit on Alder Road. He also warned about the various other things like the speed pads on Long Craigs. They all came to pass. He also drew attention to the changes in driving behaviour on Alder Road, none for the better and all caused by the markings on the road in combination with the speed pads. I seem to remember his photo is this paper beside one. Did you, at that time, make the effort to get in touch with your local invertebrate (oops, councillor) Peter Mackenzie ? No ? Well, it's a case of the auld Scots saying "Hell, mend ye. If ye didnae ken then, ye ken noo !""
Recommend? Yes 6
No 0
-
Local
Unregistered User
Aug 10, 11:49
Report comment30mph is probably the right maximum speed
its all the "speed calming" on this NON residential road.
Yet the main road and in particular the stretch along Links Road at the Promenade seem to be of little concern to the Local Community Council.
Only the other day I witnessed a car ovetaking, crossing the hatched lines, why is there no traffic islands along this stretch or reminders that the maximum is 30mph.
Yet this is where there is a pedestrians crossing.
When did the Community Council ask the local what they thought about speed calming, when the Comm Council Newsletter came through our doors.
On the alder road there is only 1 footpath that runs the length of the road, couple of bus stops.....was there a count of how many people cross to use the stops...nope.
We are always told "assessment" and "criteria", yet the alder road seems to defy these.
Someone must have influence with East Lothian Council.....
Recommend? Yes 7
No 0
Return to the main index, get more from this section or browse our News archives.
