No end to golf club's pro row

Bryan Copland • Published 5 Jul 2012 09:19 39 Comments

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The secretary of the Royal Musselburgh Golf Club says that he has given club pro John Henderson until today (Friday) to respond to an offer of accommodation and a revised role at the club.

The move comes as both Mr Henderson and assistant pro Calum Smith are set to leave the Prestonpans club due to changes that will see office staff move into the current pro shop building, and the relocation of the pro service elsewhere as part of cost-cutting measures.

But a source close to Mr Henderson claimed that club members were in "revolt", with more than half coming out in opposition to the move and several saying they will leave the club if Mr Henderson and Mr Smith depart on August 31.

A meeting about the issue was held last week and club secretary David Thomson told the Courier that Mr Henderson had been offered another room in the building but had "not responded yet".

"We discussed what route we would take," he said. "We will give him to this Friday to respond to the questions we've asked.

"We do really want a pro at the club, but it's got to be on our terms."

Mr Thomson also stated his belief that the majority of members were behind the club decision, but a source at the club disputed this.

"More than half of the members have signed the petition [against the move], a lot of members are saying if this goes through they'll be leaving the club," said the source.

Have your say. Post a comment on this article.

Tashtastic
Unregistered User
Jul 5, 15:55
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Nothing to see here.

Move along now.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 2
xasstpro
Unregistered User
Jul 5, 20:38
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I am an xasstpro at a local club near by that really knows the truth about the goings on at RMGC this past couple of years. and previously before then by the way.

All of these staff members involved know who they are and they need to leave voluntary to save face, before they too have to be shown the door and embarassed nationally.

The authorities are not too far away from continuing their ongoing investigation of the place. The crown prosecution service have a duty to persue anybody that admits breaking the law, especially when they admit it in front of a high court judge and her majestys advocate.

If these staff members are not removed before all of this comes to light then that will be the very final nail in the coffin for this once freat club.

Recommend? Yes 4 No 0
Iheardthat
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Jul 6, 11:41
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xasstpro

If you cant state the facts , why bother posting.?

Why is it that some folk like to think they know it all while others have to be kept in the dark!??

Recommend? Yes 1 No 0
ROYALIST
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Jul 6, 14:01
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The demise of this once great club is very sad. From its heyday when miners actually ran it with great dignity, when it also had worldwide respect because of its unique history, it has sadly deteriorated for many reasons.

I would suggest that if it's possible CISWO should investigate the practicalities of a well heeled, quality leisure group taking over the running of the club.

It has many fine members and with an upgrading of standards and effective marketing this club could rewcover its former stature and indeed grow to become a much sought after golfing destination given its great history and potential.

Recommend? Yes 4 No 2
ROUNDHEAD
Unregistered User
Jul 6, 14:38
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Butlins?

Recommend? Yes 4 No 0
robertbonaly
Unregistered User
Jul 6, 14:47
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Do RMGC want a Pro or not would be my question. Surely they are saying here they do, so why are they creating all this furore - I will now tell you why. Mr Thomson's comment "We do really want a pro at the club, but it's got to be on our terms." sums it up superbly as to what he and his cronies are all about - bullies. I really hope they are put in a position at an EGM or whatever to have to fully and honestly explain their antics and motives to all the RMGC members. This once great golf club deserves a lot better than these people to take it forward as apart from anything else they do not have the requisite skills to do so, be it marketing, financial or more importantly the required people skills - they have proved that in abundance with their conduct over the last few weeks and indeed months and years. It is not too late to turn this situation around if the right people with the right skills are put in place.

Recommend? Yes 18 No 1
xasstpro
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Jul 6, 23:06
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You will find that i am indeed stating ACTUAL FACTS so that everyone can actually know the real truth about the goings on at RMGC over past couple of years. Unless you sat in the edinburgh high court and witnessed what was actually said, then you could argue with me. Surely it wont take another court case for people to realise what actually went down.

You will find that i am posting these facts for everybody to see and not keep anyone in the dark.

So therefore members of this club can come to their own conclusions

Recommend? Yes 2 No 0
Tashtastic
Unregistered User
Jul 7, 12:47
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If you don't like the way we are doing things you know where the door is.

Recommend? Yes 6 No 8
redictash
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Jul 7, 20:49
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Think you'll find that it is everyone else that is unhapoy with the way thibgs are run and that is why your membership has cut in half.

All golf clubs are struggling at moment but royal musselburgh really does take the biscuit, and will be the first club to go under if the place continues to be managed the way it is.

The comment above does really answer why half the membership has left. '' if you dont like the way we do things then you know where the door is ''. No wonder everyone is in an uproar, because these are the types of answers the management give whenever things are questioned.

It is so easy nowadays to jump from club to club. So therefore the members should be offered more of an incentive to stay, something different from everybody else. Not being showed the door whenever i want to criticise the way things are done!!!!

Recommend? Yes 11 No 0
Iheardthat
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Jul 8, 07:48
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xasstpro

I think if you read your post again, you will see that in fact , you state nothing of the sort. You have posted that you "really know the truth" but fail to say what that is, you stae that you went to court to spectate, and heard the facts, but have neglected to repeat them here.

And I am not argueing your "ACTUAL FACTS", I am just pointing out that you have not said what those facts are. keeping us all in the cark, as I said.

Bit of a pointless post if truth be told.

Recommend? Yes 2 No 0
pitbits
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Jul 8, 09:41
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redictash

You have hit the nail on the head with your comment !

The whole problem at the Royal is " attitude ".

Groups of members in the form of clubs have been allowed too much " say " over the run of the mill member for many years.

Recommend? Yes 9 No 0
robertbonaly
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Jul 8, 14:23
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Tashtastic's comments really does sum it up for everyone - such arrogance and ignorance in equal measure and therefore no wonder the place is in the mess it is. It seems like some form of "crash and burn" strategy being employed by these people - never mind that the club has been around since 1774 and therefore they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect it for the future generations. These people are only interested in their own egos and nothing else, as is becoming clearer all the time. Please move on asap and stop embarassing RMGC and yourselves with your spiteful and spineless behaviour. You know you are well out of your depth, so for goodness sake, do the right thing and leave it to the appropriately qualified people to fix the mess you are leaving behind - each day that goes by just makes the whole situation worse.

Recommend? Yes 16 No 1
Rab_want_the_truth
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Jul 8, 17:52
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Tashtastic

"If you don't like the way we are doing things you know where the door is."

Your comments are so arrogant, inflammatory and show utter contempt for the membership who have PAID to join the club.

The trustees have a duty of care not a duty to dictate. I'm sure the constitution covers issues such as duty of care - unless Management are trying to change the constitution as well ?

Recommend? Yes 15 No 3
afedupmember
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Jul 9, 09:07
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Is there a petition?

Where is the petition?

Who has organised the petition?

What is the petition asking for?

When will the petition be given to the club committee?

Recommend? Yes 3 No 2
Tashtastic
Unregistered User
Jul 9, 09:39
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afedupmember

All good questions. Who is behind all this stirring?

The AGM is where members can say their piece.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 2
afedupmember
Unregistered User
Jul 9, 10:29
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xasstpro

Who are these people who you refer to, I personally know several of the staff there and your comments are implying that they are all guilty, if you are like myself a law abiding citizen then it is you duty to bring this to the attention of the local police, I am sure that if what you say is correct then you we can rid the club of the damage which has been caused . If not then please think about the feelings of the staff when you make such allegations and be silent.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 3
afedupmember
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Jul 9, 12:00
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my sources tell me that the "petition" is to keep the pro at the club and that he is the one gathering names, I am sure if my employer could no longer afford me they would listen to a signed petition by my colleagues, come on live in the real world, if members are serious about the future of the club rather than find ways to throw abuse they should try and work with the committee to resolve these issues, the ones who are embarrassing the Royal are those who make personal atatcks on individuals, could it be they are jealous for other reasons or is that the way they always are.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 5
xasstpro
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Jul 10, 01:05
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afedupmember

i sat for more than half of the 6 week trial at the high court of judiciary in edinburgh. there were 5 members of staff that gave evidence. Most of the rmgc members all know who these individuals are, all you have to do is do some digging for yourself and ask fellow members. these 5 members of staff all admitted to doing more wrong than the lad they gave evidence against. I am not going to name these individuals publicly but they know who they are. If you want to know them then all yoj need to do is to contact the crown office on chambers street, edinburgh. You can request copy transcript of the trial and therefore see the names to which i am refering to. Either that or just search all the staff members names i to google and see what you come up with. but to be honest google will only provide tabloid reports to which are not accurate.

I am not going to publicly name these staff members but for all of those members out there thst want to know the truth then just contact the crown office, they will provide transcripted court proceedings.

The lad who lost his job plead guilty to a lot less than what the staff members admitted to being part of. Therefore i truly think that everybody should be treated no differently.

If there is any committee members out there wanting to know the truth, then they to can request transcrips from the crown office. This will all help to clear any mud from royal musselburgh so they can move forward from the blackened name they still have from this problem they. the clubs name is still blackened because of these people still under employment and therefore they should be removed.

Recommend? Yes 3 No 1
afedupmember
Unregistered User
Jul 10, 07:56
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xasstpro

why you chose to spend half of the six week trial at the high court leaves me speechless, have these five individuals been charged by the police. If not then why do you continually feel a need to continue with your crusade to deal with something that is old hat. If you are a member of the club then my personal advice would be to ask to speak with the committee and bring your concerns to their attention

the issue here is about the committees decision to save money by streamlining their finances, your comments about the "drug" issue has no relevance on the current situation

Recommend? Yes 1 No 2
Tashtastic
Unregistered User
Jul 10, 13:37
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I have said it already but it is worth repeating.

Nothing to see here.

Move along now.

Recommend? Yes 5 No 7
Tashtastic
Unregistered User
Jul 10, 14:39
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And the door is still where it always was.

Recommend? Yes 7 No 8
afedupmember
Unregistered User
Jul 12, 13:31
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can someone please answer this question

why is it that the Professional is being allowed to openly seek members names to call for a vote of no confidence in the committee, I find this absolutely unbelievable.

Surely in his previous role as treasurer he must realise the financial plight of the club.

But lets put forward a scenario.

Just lets say the “rebels” get their way what then , they form a new committee, do they re-employ the professional on the same terms and conditions , if so what cuts will need to be made which both the Bank and CISWA would probably advice.

Do they cut other jobs just because they want to save the “PRO”

I think members have a right to answers and I am sure the mail shot received today will go along way to explain the situation .

Recommend? Yes 1 No 3
thebelter
9 posts
Jul 13, 12:49
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afedupmember

afedupmember

Surely in his previous role as treasurer he must realise the financial plight of the club.

I 'm sure he does and would admit to that. But he also knows (and so should we all) that the people managing the matter, are not up to the task of recovering from this.

And getting shot Of the Pro is not the critical issue

Their ego is more important to them than the financial state of the club Now, and wont live up to reality and put their hands up and say "Well We Tried and have had a "Gid Kick At The Baw"

Look at our list of Committee, How many have a Successful Financial Management background to deal with level of the serious nous of our status.

I am sure if the correct people were put in place then the Pro would look at the costing to retain him there and if possible would be able to negotiate and deal that would be beneficial to everyone who has the club's interest at heart

But it’s sad to say that it looks like that is not going to be possible with the present committee , as they have now started to divert from the serious issues and making things personal.

If they agree that this is a situation that we should all be supporting their decision making, Why don’t they be completely transparent and open their meetings to all members to attend only in our function hall!

So Please have a good think of what is important here !!

Recommend? Yes 1 No 0
afedupmember
Unregistered User
Jul 13, 14:52
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thebelter

are you now telling me that there are individuals who are prepared to put themselves forward who are better qualified to carry out the management of the club than the current committee

have you had an opportunity to read the recent mail shot , would you not agree that it gives clarity to the current situation

if however you feel it is not the case then you are well within your rights to call a special meeting,however what is not appropriate is the person in question openly seeking names to call for a vote of no confidence

how would your employer react to that - probably I will see you at an indsutrial tribunal

Recommend? Yes 0 No 3
thebelter
9 posts
Jul 16, 13:32
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afedupmember

No I am dont know if there are individuals who are prepared to put themselves forward

WHAT I AM SAYING IS " in my opinion That's Now what is Needed"

As for the person in question taking names to call for a vote of NO CONFIDENCE.

Does it matter who is seeking the names ? If there is no response to that , then thats not thoughts of the members .

But if the majority respond to this .Then they must think that is what is required!

And surley thats what matters and has to be Honoured

Or does what the members think not matter ?

I may not be in agreement with it , but I fully support the members rights to decide the future of their club

Recommend? Yes 2 No 0
members
Unregistered User
Jul 18, 11:30
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Dear Management Committee,

We would like to express our concerns regarding the various issues arising at the R.M.G.C. We all love this once great club and have its best interests at heart, so we feel it is time to express our opinion as to recent events that have been all over the media.

Would it not be prudent to stop spending money on non essentials, (changing the pro shop into offices) until at least the issue with this petition is resolved and a clearer picture of the way forward is gained? Especially when there is very little money and the whole reason this petition came about was your cost cutting plan to do away with the professional.

To immediately change the shop to offices, (when we already have unused office space at the club) is sending out the wrong signals to the membership, who are, as you are no doubt well aware, are already incensed at the pro’s dismissal. This plan shows a total disregard for the member’s feelings, the ones you have been elected to serve. So why spend money on things that may be overturned by the membership if an e.g.m. is called?

Why was it necessary to send in two committee members to measure up the shop for conversion, when it is still being occupied by the pro who still has about another six weeks before he finishes? Surely you must have realised this would have upset the pro, his staff and also incensed the member. Why the big rush to spend money we do not have. Surely it would be better to stop fighting the members, and gain their approval and confidence moving forward, as we all try as a club together, not just a committee of twelve men fighting the membership, to pull this once great club back from the brink of extinction it faces if we carry on the way we are going.

Can you break down how you come to the figure of a £40K saving is generated by the loss of the pro?

If we are in such a financially poor position, do you not feel you should refuse your honorarium, until we are at least on a better financial footing to be able to afford it? This would at least soften to a degree the member’s feelings to your cost cutting measures.

Why pay green staff overtime for weekend work, when you could easily change their contracts to five days over seven day’s contract, which would mean you have cover seven days a week for no extra cost.

What other plans do you have for cost cutting and what plans are there to generate more income for the club? We agree you may have to cut the costs to balance the books, but equally we also need to generate more income to survive.

Do you intend to freeze next year’s fees at this years prices? Or do you intend to price us all out of rejoining?

We also agree, no one is bigger than the club, and to balance the books the club pro may have to be sacrificed. But surely that has to be the last resort? There are other ways to reduce expenditure before we come to this. A club of this stature needs a pro and who as a visitor, would want to come to this club and speak to office staff, who probably know nothing or very little about the game, the course and the history of this club.

It is time to stop treating the members as meaningless fools, we are more intelligent than you think. It is a time for openness, lay your cards on the table, tell it like it is and stop hiding behind cheap excuses you use as answers to members questions.

Seek their help, value their opinions, and embrace change. After all it is our money you are spending.

Please! Stop digging this hole, that all of us as a ROYAL club, with its history, may never get out off.

We await your earliest reply,

David Smith, Club Member 2995

Robert Dryburgh, Club Member 609

Recommend? Yes 33 No 0
Pubsman
1 post
Jul 22, 10:52
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Four days since the well-worded open letter to the Management Committee. Does the lack of response indicate the numbers of "marks" the letter has hit?

Recommend? Yes 6 No 0
concerned member
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Jul 22, 19:13
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Reply from Mr Thomson,

I will bring up your letter at the next Management Committee meeting and get back to you ASAP

Regards

David

Recommend? Yes 1 No 1
Tashtastic
Unregistered User
Jul 24, 15:45
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No I won't.

Recommend? Yes 2 No 6
concerned member
Unregistered User
Jul 27, 22:48
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Your arrogance is astounding Mr Lindsay. You just cant help yourself. You have yet to make a positive contribution to this page and also to the running of the Royal. No wonder the club have members leaving by the dozen with people like you attempting to be its figurehead.

Try to remember this club is not yours, regardless of what the badge says on your blazer. It belongs to the members with their vote of no confidence in the management committee.

Will you still have that arrogance when they say to you "Something new here, move along, you know where the door is.

Recommend? Yes 9 No 1
Members
Unregistered User
Aug 4, 09:00
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Dear Mr. Thomson.

We are extremely dismayed at your lack of response to our last email we sent to you dated 17th July. To which you replied on the 18th July promising to get back to us ASAP.

Just in case you, like your colleague on the management committee who boasted on the local newspaper web page that he would not be discussing it at the next committee meeting. Or If you have lost, misplaced or even deleted that email, we have enclosed a copy along with your reply at the bottom of this email.

With every update to recent events you give the membership you create more questions than you give answers.

Here are some more questions we would like answered in addition to our recent email

Can you be more specific as to where in the constitution and on what grounds, the committee’s decision to decline the memberships request to hold an SGM, in that it does not meet the constitution requirements and what was CISWO’s input in your decision.

Your honorarium, why do you need to discuss your refusing it at the next committee meeting? Surely this is a personal matter for you to decide and not the committee’s. Did the treasurer have to get the committees approval to refuse his honorarium? After all, you are a reputed substantial lottery winner and would clearly not need this extra income, which would go a long way to helping this club get out of its financial crisis.

Can you explain why five members of the club were able to take seventeen guests golfing without paying any green fees? We are led to believe these golfers are members of a golf club/society that you are associated with.

Can you also explain why even more office space has now become available to rent as a good customer has now decided to go elsewhere at a financial loss to the club of circa £12000. This must reinforce that to turn the professionals shop into more office space is a very poor and bad decision. What are your plans to fill this financial void? Are your intensions to sell off the family jewels? Or what are left of the ones that have not gone missing yet.

Do you or the committee have a personal vendetta against the professional? We understand that over three hundred members signed a petition to keep the professional and his assistant, which you dismissed. Why?

Where do you intend getting a professional that has the knowledge and ability and respect of our current professional to take up office space, somewhere in the bowels of the building, to give golf lessons and repair clubs etc?

Had you had the humility to understand the true feelings of the membership and reverse your decision, we may not be in this position of conflict today.

What are you hoping to achieve by continually ignoring the wishes of the members, getting their backs up and receiving the continued barrage of abuse via comments and through the media. Anybody in a sane mind would not have put up with this and have walked away. What are you getting out of all this? It would appear you a running this club to suit yourself and also those of your friends, where you do as you wish ignoring the wishes of the membership. This is not a dictatorship, because, that is what it feels like being a member here. Your way or no way. ( We now have something in common with the Syrians)

Could it be that the instability of this club generated by your poor haphazard leadership and management coupled with your insensitivity to the members feelings and requests is now not only keeping potential new golf members away, but also chasing existing golf members and good rental customers, with a substantial regular monthly rental income to our club out the door also?

We are also aware that a substantial amount of unhappy members are ready to walk away and join other local clubs in the area, as what happened last year, if this embarrassment is not rectified shortly in a fitting manner. This is something I am sure you are aware that the club cannot afford. If this was to happen, where would that leave the club? Certainly in a bigger financial mess than it is now. You will put up green fees to compensate the lack of income, even more members leaving because they cannot afford it. No more Royal Musselburgh Golf Club.

If you feel that you are doing a good and proper job and can explain your reasons for the decisions taken by the committee, you will have nothing to fear by allowing an EGM. Bring your case to the members, let the body of the Kirk decide, and if your reasoning’s and decisions stand the scrutiny of the members, you will still be in office after an EGM if not do the honourable thing and walk away, as some of your fellow committee members have mentioned they are thinking about. Oops, is this a crack beginning to appear!!

What does it feel like to be the most disliked person at the Royal Musselburgh; Your family must be very proud of you.

D Smith, member 2995 & R Dryburgh, member 609

Recommend? Yes 7 No 2
Iheardthat
Unregistered User
Aug 6, 01:37
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The bit that concerns me is the "change there contract" with regards to the groundsmen.

People are not toys ! messed about with due to your clubs failings. YOU change the way the club is run instead of messing with peoples livelyhood

Recommend? Yes 0 No 0
Members
Unregistered User
Aug 7, 11:02
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ATTENTION ALL ROYAL MUSSELBURGH GOLF CLUB MEMBERS

NOTIFICATION OF A SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING

YOUR ATTENDANCE IS REQUIRED ON THE 14TH AUGUST 2012 FOR A SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING TO TAKE PLACE AT THE ROYAL MUSSELBURGH GOLF CLUB AT 7pm IN THE FUNCTION HALL.

THIS MEETING IS BEING REQUESTED BY THE CONCERNED MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL MUSSELBURGH GOLF CLUB TO CONSIDER RECENT EVENTS AT THE CLUB.

YOU’RE ATTENDANCE, VIEWS AND VOTE IS IMPORTANT TO THE VERY SURVIVAL OF THE FIFTH OLDEST GOLF CLUB IN THE WORLD.

NOW IS THE TIME TO HAVE YOUR SAY.

Recommend? Yes 8 No 1
concerned member
Unregistered User
Aug 7, 12:06
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iheardthat.

Are you saying it is OK to mess around with the professionals and his assistants life?

Because that is what the committee have done.

What is being said, is that this is something that could be looked at as a way of cost saving. Costs need to be reduced in order to survive. As we now live in a 24/7 society, it may be the way forward,

Also if we do not do something, there will not be a club and everyone employed there will be out of a job

Recommend? Yes 6 No 0
Fitter
Unregistered User
Aug 8, 15:54
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Don't know what you are on about but I come to the boxercise class on a Tuesday and no one has told me it's been cancelled.

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Fitter
Unregistered User
Aug 8, 16:04
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Just read the comments from members 2995 + 609 - first of all in any business when it comes to finance, staffing etc the details are now normally minuted so that there is no comeback in the future from anyone this is good business practice - thought you might have known that

I have also heard that your professional gets a retainer, plus a take of the fees and gets to keep all the money from the shop sales, lessons, repairs etc - he doesn't give anything back to the golf club and I believe the shop is free of rent and bills - so maybe he should stick his hand in his pocket and help out instead of just take take take because it sounds as if the members of the club give him an awfully lot of money and a good standard of living.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 2
concerned member
Unregistered User
Aug 9, 08:38
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fitter.

We do know that, thing is do the committee.

Also, if there was good business practice carried out , the club would not be in the mess it is now.

That is the is the whole crux of the matter. Incompetence from the management committee.

The members are not up in arms for nothing, they love their club and are disgusted and embarrassed at how this management committee have brought this club to its knees Thought you might have realised that.

As regards the professional. go and speak to him, he will tell you what he gets. He is an approachable person.

With over 300 members signatures on a petition to keep the professional, which was discarded by the committee. Also a request for an SGM, refused buy the committee.

with the committee trying to stop this current SGM by refusing the use of OUR club to hold it, begs the question who is trying to kid who?

If things are not sorted now, you may not have a hall to hold your boxercise.

So what side of the fence do you sit on?

member 2995.

Recommend? Yes 1 No 0
Fitter
Unregistered User
Aug 9, 12:44
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Calm down - I am sure other premises will be happy to take the income from the boxercise class if you feel it does not fit - but hope you have something to take its place or the hall will be just an empty non paying shell.

Just remember "be careful what you wish for" - will the professional be expecting an increase in retainer because it looks as if you might not have the funds for that and what about the members who didn't sign will they all stay with you or will you lose their income.

What about you are you ready to take up the mantle of president or treasurer if so good luck and I hope it all works out.

The only fence I sit on is mine but it would appear that there are two different stories doing the rounds so I supposed all this dirty washing that has been done in public will eventually come clean.

Recommend? Yes 0 No 0
swinglow
Unregistered User
Aug 15, 08:41
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The committee proved their incompetence at the SGM last night , by the lack of information It was more like a venue for the Comedy club at the festival!

The people put in place couldn’t answer questions on their own position they hold, and the Chairman was looking at them to offer support when questions were being fired at them from the body of the hall. And all he got was shrugged shoulder’s and heads nodded !!!

They should be totally ashamed of the way they have managed the finances, and withholding the state of the finances from the members. Even at last nights meeting this information would have not been announced , if it wasn’t squeezed out of them by the body of the hall.

Lets see how many hang about and support the club on the clearing up of the mess they have left us in, with them being stripped of their position and Ego’s

At least they have the chance to get some cash back from the club, when they sell their blazers to the new management team(If they fit?)

Move On Now Nothing to see!!!

Recommend? Yes 6 No 1

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